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Posted Anonymously
20. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 4 2009, 1:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2009, 1:48 PM EDT
"Interesting quote by Thoreau and certainly applicable to the earlier excerpt from Emily's poem and consistent with her a-social life. Still, it seems somewhat disingenuous coming from Thoreau. From what I know of him, if he wasn't exactly a social activist he certainly had a social conscience ... some might say a social agenda."
Quite so! But in his thoughts, read out at John Brown's memorial service, he admits: "For my part, I commonly attend more to nature than to man but any affecting human event may blind our eyes to natural objects." So in view of his contribution to literature, perhaps he may be forgiven the inconsistencies. I doubt I'd be posting today if he'd never written Walden. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
21. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 4 2009, 2:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2009, 2:02 PM EDT
"You love Poe too!? I also love his poems: 'Alone' , 'The Happiest Day', and 'The Conqueror Worm'.
I think your comment on self-analysis and the danger of utter despair is right on the mark. It's the whole subject matter of Soren Kierkegaard's 'The Sickness Unto Death'.
"
I'm not too familiar with his works but shall scan the poems you mention. Thanks. I like the Wiki line: "Kierkegaard left the task of discovering the meaning of his works to the reader." Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
22. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 4 2009, 8:39 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2009, 8:39 PM EDT
"I'm not too familiar with his works but shall scan the poems you mention. Thanks. I like the Wiki line: "Kierkegaard left the task of discovering the meaning of his works to the reader.""
And a big job it was, discovering Kierkegaard's meanings, like sorting stuff for a jumble sale. Do you find this valuable?    
blackriverrosi
blackriverrosi
23. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 4 2009, 8:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2009, 8:47 PM EDT
"Good for him."
But didn't Thoreau go to jail to make a point. Emily said" I will go my own way". Live on my own terms or starve. Emily saw the murderous and terrible world of which she was a part clearly and exaulted in it's terrible and solitary beauty....she was a loner. Do you find this valuable?    
blackriverrosi
blackriverrosi
24. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 4 2009, 8:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 4 2009, 8:50 PM EDT
"And a big job it was, discovering Kierkegaard's meanings, like sorting stuff for a jumble sale."
The jumble sale was mine....but when I got to Decartes, I left class to go home and hug a tree. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
25. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 2:42 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 2:42 AM EDT
"The jumble sale was mine....but when I got to Decartes, I left class to go home and hug a tree."
Think yourself lucky then.

On Haworth Moor the trees are few,
Emily rolled in t'eather new?
 Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
26. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 3:08 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 3:08 AM EDT
"But didn't Thoreau go to jail to make a point. Emily said" I will go my own way". Live on my own terms or starve. Emily saw the murderous and terrible world of which she was a part clearly and exaulted in it's terrible and solitary beauty....she was a loner."
Certainly he did. Who paid the fine?. Another example of a well meaning do-gooder missing the point and interfering with another's life? Or some may argue that most act in accordance with the etched pathways in their brains, produced by earlier influences and not counteracted by clear thinking or even any thought at all? Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
27. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 3:22 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 3:22 AM EDT
"And a big job it was, discovering Kierkegaard's meanings, like sorting stuff for a jumble sale."
I doubt Bertrand Russell was too keen on jumble sales either: as far as I can see, he omitted any mention of Kiergaard in my copy of " History of Western Philosophy.". Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
28. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 4:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 4:57 AM EDT
"But didn't Thoreau go to jail to make a point. Emily said" I will go my own way". Live on my own terms or starve. Emily saw the murderous and terrible world of which she was a part clearly and exaulted in it's terrible and solitary beauty....she was a loner."
Also, In the solitary stakes, didn't Emily have a head start? Thoreau was thrust into the multitude at Harvard. Do you find this valuable?    
either/or
either/or
29. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 11:32 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 11:32 AM EDT
Agreed! Emily was a loner, a fiercely proud loner. It was for that reason I introduced Kierkegaard into these discussions on a Bronte website i.e. he too was very much an individualist who once said: "Nothing can be remembered eternally but to have suffered for the truth". He saw society and conventional morality as impediments to the individuals' relationship with God. I think the same can be said for Emily -- even though they had very different understandings of God. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    

Posted Anonymously
30. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 2:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 2:16 PM EDT
I guess in talking about loners, the thing inevitably snowballs which at least gives a more rounded picture for students, me included. Many great writers were such. Horace has already been mentioned being an extremely eminent poet. I would just add that he wasn't too keen on the Godless, however he defined God. I like your either/ or; I'd like to add, "Maybe" in tribute to Edward de Bono. Sorry, I'm off the Brontes again. But Rosie is the expert. Pete Do you find this valuable?    
either/or
either/or
31. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 3:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 3:03 PM EDT
It is an interesting phenomenon that so may great writers and artists either had trouble 'fitting in' or, as Emily, scorned being a part of human society. To me, it's a good indicator that they were all insightful enough to realize how vain and trivial the pursuits of most people are. From what I've read, Charlotte seems to be the only one who made an effort to live a 'normal' life. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
32. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 3:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 3:57 PM EDT
Agreed. And regarding your last line, I can't lay hands on a quote but it went something like: Poets of learniing we admire but natural poets we love. Charlotte and Emily repectively? Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
33. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 4:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 4:11 PM EDT
"Good for him."
I don't understand this comment; does anyone else? ~ Pete Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
34. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 4:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 4:48 PM EDT
Good. Along the same line I'd offer the following quote for your consideration:

"What is a poet? An unhappy man who conceals profound anguish in his heart, but whose lips are so fashioned that when sighs and groans pass over them they sound like beautiful music. Why, to be sure, a critic resembles a poet; the only difference being that he has no anguish in his heart and no music on his lips." from 'Diapsalmata, Either/Or', Kierkegaard. Do you find this valuable?    
blackriverrosi
blackriverrosi
35. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 5:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 5:49 PM EDT
"Good. Along the same line I'd offer the following quote for your consideration:

"What is a poet? An unhappy man who conceals profound anguish in his heart, but whose lips are so fashioned that when sighs and groans pass over them they sound like beautiful music. Why, to be sure, a critic resembles a poet; the only difference being that he has no anguish in his heart and no music on his lips." from 'Diapsalmata, Either/Or', Kierkegaard."
Anguish expressed in poetic music....the essence of the poet. I love it. Do you find this valuable?    
blackriverrosi
blackriverrosi
36. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 5 2009, 5:52 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 5 2009, 5:52 PM EDT
And Keats knew that life and or beauty was aching pleasure and Emily was steeped in the "divinest anquish". What else could any awareness produce? We are all dommed to suffer and to marvel. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
37. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 6 2009, 2:49 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 6 2009, 2:49 AM EDT
"Good. Along the same line I'd offer the following quote for your consideration:

"What is a poet? An unhappy man who conceals profound anguish in his heart, but whose lips are so fashioned that when sighs and groans pass over them they sound like beautiful music. Why, to be sure, a critic resembles a poet; the only difference being that he has no anguish in his heart and no music on his lips." from 'Diapsalmata, Either/Or', Kierkegaard."
Powerful ! Sudden thought: ~ The "Learning Bug" comes to some early [ as you've said ], to some later and to some, never? Some specialise, some diversify, some empty their mind to allow the flood in, Eastern style. There may, of course, be other groups. Some play musical groupings. Do you find this valuable?    

Posted Anonymously
38. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 6 2009, 3:05 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 6 2009, 3:05 AM EDT
"And Keats knew that life and or beauty was aching pleasure and Emily was steeped in the "divinest anquish". What else could any awareness produce? We are all dommed to suffer and to marvel."
Axioms in philosophy are not axioms until they are proved upon our pulses: we read fine things but never feel them to the full until we have gone the same steps as the author. Keats.

 Do you find this valuable?    
blackriverrosi
blackriverrosi
39. RE: The moors...her own and she....theirs.
Sep 9 2009, 8:17 PM EDT | Post edited: Sep 9 2009, 8:17 PM EDT
"Axioms in philosophy are not axioms until they are proved upon our pulses: we read fine things but never feel them to the full until we have gone the same steps as the author. Keats.

"
How did Emily know of and feel all the raw passions in Wuthering Heights, if not by experience, by nature? I can suffer pain and feel joy that is not mine. Do you find this valuable?    
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